Christine ([info]chris_nysb) wrote,
@ 2008-10-17 22:43:00
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k most of you are j2 and should know this already if you're even the least bit interested, but it's amazing how many people have this misconception:

"liberal art colleges shouldn't have compulsory modules because by definition, liberal arts means that you have the liberty to study what you like to study! that's what a liberal arts college is about!!"

no. just.. no.

even wikipedia knows this:

The term 'liberal arts' is a college or curriculum aimed at imparting general knowledge and developing intellectual capacities, in contrast to a professional, vocational, or technical curriculum. In classical antiquity, the term designated the education proper to a freeman (Latin: liber, "free") as opposed to a slave. Martianus Capella (5th century AD) defines the seven Liberal Arts as grammar, dialectic, rhetoric and geometry, arithmetic, astronomy, music.

catholic(!!) encyclopedia:

They are called liberal (Latin liber, free), because they serve the purpose of training the free man, in contrast with the artes illiberales, which are pursued for economic purposes; their aim is to prepare the student not for gaining a livelihood, but for the pursuit of science in the strict sense of the term, i.e. the combination of philosophy and theology known as scholasticism.

and lastly this site, which is best read (though the portion about the faculty isn't really relevant):

In the early 19th century, subject matter that made up the liberal arts curriculum was fixed: the ancient classics, rhetoric, logic, Greek and Latin. It was what a gentleman, a liberally educated person, had to know. Today, while the curriculum is flexible, taking advantage of the special skills and interests of the faculty, it still defines liberal education at each liberal arts college. It is the responsibility of the faculty — not the students, not the administration — to create a curriculum and the goal in doing so must be to make the best possible use of the faculty to insure that the college’s graduates are securely launched on a lifetime of liberal education.

to be honest i haven't really read up properly on any college besides sjc, but it strikes me that when i first heard of liberal art colleges, i wasn't attracted. many of the colleges advertised themselves as a less restricted version of normal university, where you get to learn from broader fields and you can pursue your interests, but the catch - it seems to be as focused on ability and grades as any other college. it still seemed largely like singapore's meritocratic system, which of course is good for countries and economies but not always so for the individual. and i was looking for a place which loved learning and educated one to be more of a person, not built up one's talents i suppose for the eventual purpose of entering society.

only sjc has the focus i want. but the point i was trying to make was more that: liberal art colleges now seem to be advertising themselves as a place where you can learn anything you want, any how you want? that was never their intent, and it's very painful to see them increasingly skewing themselves towards normality. almost as painful as seeing people who proclaim their interest in liberal art education adopt this point of view.

and if you're thinking of going to a liberal arts college for pragmatic reasons (e.g. financial aid, or because you'll learn skills like critical thinking), you.. really shouldn't. the whole point of a liberal arts education is as stated below:

(1) The quality of a liberal education that makes it so effective is that the subject matter studied is not “use-eh-full.”

It is the very “uselessness” of what liberal arts students study that opens the door to their appreciating knowing for the sake of knowing, that drives home the point that learning is of value in and of itself whether or not it leads directly to a marketable skill. It is possible to realize these things while studying banking or engineering, but it is much more difficult because the student is constantly distracted from the utility of acquiring knowledge by the utility of the knowledge being acquired. The genius of the American system of liberal education is that it eliminates this distraction. Its uselessness separates knowing from need to know, learning from need to learn, desire to understand from need to understand.

it needs money and i'm not certain if i can make it. but at the very least i know what i'm doing and why i'm doing. please make an informed choice! esp j1s i know you guys still have a year to consider but seriously, don't speak of pragmatic reasons or having complete freedom of choice when you're thinking of a liberal arts education. pragmatic reasons are important but there is difference between acknowledging that and making it your purpose.


correct me if your model of liberal arts education is totally different, because really - i'm only aiming for sj; of course there's a bias.


(xiu said that ki taught us to love learning. we weren't like this in nanyang, that much i know.)




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[info]htenywg
2008-10-17 03:34 pm UTC (link)
I think you go to college (or school at any other level, actually) getting what you want out of it. If you want a specialised degree you go for it. If you value a liberal arts education you go for it.

And it's somewhat true that many people take away the conception that you can study whatever you want to study, but many of the best liberal arts colleges have course requirements too. Like you can't just focus on arts and humanities all the time, you have to take courses in science and maths areas too, etc.

For me, I'm only applying to LACs, and that's because I don't see how a specialised degree will help me in any way in the future. But somehow all the LACs I've been attracted to are colleges where there is a very strong focus on giving back to the community with the knowledge learnt, which is nowhere in the original mission statement, so to speak. For me I don't see how that's a bad way to detract from the original purpose, though.

I think it's good to move with the times.

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[info]chris_nysb
2008-10-17 03:59 pm UTC (link)
yeah the math and science courses, i forgot those. i looked through the science liberal arts textbooks, they're actually very very far behind my jc physics education. but i suppose they want to keep it broad based yet understandable.

i don't think divergence from the original mission is bad per se, only when the changes detract from the original or completely subvert it. your aim has utility in mind but haha gwen i can be all D: at going through a liberal arts education for practical purposes but if i were D: at community service you would dislike me!! i would like to help people, but to me education of myself is the primary goal. helping other people with who i become is secondary, though important. i think it's quite clear where your interest lies, though.

considering that you've been thinking about it for a really long time i don't think it's fair to ask if you're sure about this but just, weren't there any other options? if you're really keen on helping people/ the community, why go through a lae that (you say) you're applying for not on basis of its merits, but because you find other types of education less useful?

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[info]htenywg
2008-10-18 02:19 am UTC (link)
No matter where you go, with an A level certificate, you will feel bored in the first semester. That is the beauty (and curse) of the Singaporean education system. Heck, my sister went to the US to do biochem without even starting J2, and the stuff they covered in her first-year lectures were all rehashes on secondary school + JC stuff.

It's not only broad-based and understandable.. it's just that that is the level of information American high school kids enter with.

Yeah well, I'm the person that actually doesn't want to go to university. I used to believe in the whole 'learning for learning's sake', but somehow I think JC killed that for me. But I know it's still somewhere in me cause I love reading about all sorts of things. I just no longer think learning in an institution is the best way to do it. Then again if I do get to go to an American LAC, maybe that will change?

I'm applying to an LAC because I'm fairly certain of what I want to do in the future, and I thought about it and came to the conclusion that a specialised degree wasn't really the best thing to do. That, and none of the specialised courses appeal to me. As in, they interest me in a very basic, "Hey, that's interesting," kind of way but firstly too many of them interest me like that, and secondly I thought about whether I wanted to graduate with an undergrad degree in each of those particular courses, and decided, no. For me I'm always afraid of closing off my chances, and to me a specialised degree does just that, with whatever I want to do with my post-undergrad-life. On the other hand, though, an LAE promised to mould me into the kind of person I want to be. And all that said, don't think that I'm not applying based on merit. xD I might not be applying to like Amherst and Williams, but the LACs I'm applying to are still fairly high up the pecking order. xDDD

There was an alternative option, and that was to take a gap year and do some stuff that I wanted to do. That was in hopes of me finding what I really liked to do and never needing to go back to college (yet). That's another way of finding out what you would like/need (ahh, utility again) to do, but my parents were shrewdly concluded that I was just trying to get out of going to university and told me I could only do a gap year if I were 1) very sure of how I was going to spend my year and 2) if I went back to college after. Remarkably I actually failed the first condition. I know how I want to spend it but I don't know how to get started, then with all the school pressures I kept putting off planning about it, and then I started to get interested in LACs and yeah.

And then of course, my safety school is NUS FASS. xDDDD

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[info]chris_nysb
2008-10-18 01:01 pm UTC (link)
oh but for lacs it's not just the first semester. apparently most of the physics courses stay at the experimental stage, like making generalized conclusions via personal discovery. which is all part of its aims i suppose but i'm slightly perturbed because they're never going to wind up knowing enough of physics as an entire body of knowledge to properly understand it. should apply for the other sciences too, but ah, well!

actually yeah i think going to an lac will revive your love? i think putting yourself in such situation can't hurt, anyway. and i understand your reasons, i share them too just that alongside those i actually -want- sjc xD

i meant the merit of an lae education! not the ranking of the school

how do you want to spend it? i was thinking of doing a gap year too (before sj BUT YEAH I GUESS EVERYONE'S TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT SJ) and my idea of a gap year involved loads of reading in different fields, gaining a deeper understanding of fields and life, meeting people and seeing what the working world was like etc. which.. probably wasn't very inspired, but it looks quite startable, what was difficult about your plan?

... so is mine kinda (on basis of non-thinking about anything but sj) xDDDD

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[info]dysentary
2008-10-17 11:50 pm UTC (link)
i'm so glad you've clarified that misconception! (:

just a random point to add - every american college (mainstream or liberal arts) is supposed to provide a liberal arts education. in theory, the only thing that is different about liberal arts colleges is the fact that they don't have post-grads and that they have a higher proportion of undergrads taking liberal arts subjects.

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[info]chris_nysb
2008-10-18 01:04 pm UTC (link)
"every american college (mainstream or liberal arts) is supposed to provide a liberal arts education."

are you certain??? that sounds amazing but i'm pretty sure that they have pragmatic/ vocational people around too. if you mean that all american colleges are supposed to um, educate the american public to have the skills and ability to understand and intelligently vote on issues, i think that may be possible. but saying every school's supposed to provide an lae's a really big claim!

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[info]dysentary
2008-10-18 11:29 pm UTC (link)
it occurred to me that i shouldn't have read through your post so quickly. in theory the schools are meant to provide an lae, but the model's really quite different. most schools interpret it as "letting undergrads do whatever they like, and some interdisciplinary stuff, before they decide on a major". so yeah, i should have qualified.

frankly i don't see how taking a science can truly fit in with your model of lae. i wish it weren't that way but somehow i imagine that eventually, we'll end up discussing the findings of science.

just out of curiosity though, do your parents know where you want to study? when i told my parents that i was going to take philosophy of science, my mom just laughed and she really thought i wasn't serious.

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[info]chris_nysb
2008-10-20 04:23 pm UTC (link)
oh that, haha. that sure sounds more probable. is it like a creed somewhere, do you have any links/ books? i don't think everyone sees education this way.

well, not studying science in itself i suppose (but only because the sciences nowadays are increasingly technical) but studying sciences in general, i don't see why they wouldn't fit. take for example astronomy - that was probably study of the stars and the way physical things moved - which isn't too far from the way we take science. physics, especially, is relevant to a lae because it portrays the way the world works in a very coherent light (before quantum mechanics, i qualify). i think the sciences would have been included in the list of items a liberal man should know, but it's probably because of the early founding of lae (5 A.D.) - during which time sciences weren't established/ were seen as like, mysticism?? and maybe the rules just carried on from there maybe gwen's right, some things should be open to change. i don't know i need to look into history haha and I'M STUDYING NOW ;_;

yes my parents know they were like .... what are the job prospects?? at first but they saw that it's something that i really want, and that i know what i'm doing. pragmatics-wise i was telling them that these skills i learn will carry me through life - they understood. evidence of acceptance: my mommy was talking to her friends and one of them asked, "what does your daughter want to be when she grows up?" and my mommy said, "a philosopher!"

..CAN'T GET MORE OPEN THAN THAT xD

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